Griswold versus Lyon
In February of 1798 Rep. Griswold of Connecticut beat the holy hell out of Rep. Lyon of Vermont over a question of an insult. Griswold had been isulted, so he had called Lyon a coward the previous day, Lyon spit in Griswold's face. The next day came the beating, with a hickory walking stick.
I'm not saying that we should return to the honor culture of duels or anything (the way that culture treated women is itself a reason to stay far away from it's values). But the larger point was that while Congress is a deliberative body, you don't just call another member a coward or a traitor lest you want your head kicked in. If you want civility in politics, you have to maintain it yourself and not go around using fighting wors for political gain becouse your rhteorical skills fail otherwise.
Yesterday, Rep. John Murtha (D-Penn) an Iraq hawk, and a conservative Democrat said that the troops should be brought home, that the war wasn't going as advertised, that the war was destabilizing the region, and that it was in general bad for America. Murtha is a 31 year verteran of the House, retire as a colonel in the USMC after 37 years of serviece including tours in Vietnam. He voted for the war resolution in 2002. Now the White House compares him to Michael Moore and says that he's advocating "surrender". And many Republican members of the House are saying that he dishonors the memory of the troops. The best is this little nugget from Rep. Geoff Davis (which I'm sure is just a coincidence), a Republican from Kentucky:
"I think it's important to understand the political climate in which these shameful statements have been made. Ayman Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's deputy, as well as Abu Musab Zarqawi, have made it quite clear in their internal propaganda that they cannot win unless they can drive the Americans out. And they know that they can't do that there, so they've brought the battlefield to the halls of Congress. And, frankly, the liberal leadership have put politics ahead of sound, fiscal and national security policy. And what they have done is cooperated with our enemies and are emboldening our enemies." Did you get that last bit there? He said that Murtha is "cooperat[ing] with out enemies." Them's fightin' words.
Here's the thing. Number one: he should beat the holy hell out of Dennis Hastert and his far right fringe American-hating kind. Number Two: as the the Michael Moore comparison. The opinon that the war is fucked and that we need to pull out is not a fringe left opinion unless you think that the majority of Americans are on the fringe left. This kinds of silly insulting is what people do when they don't have an answer to your comments. Yeah, John Murtha, who has made a career out of service to the nation is trying to help the terrorists. What's up with all these dudes that love America so much that they hate most Americans?
At least out here on the fringe left we question our oponents ideas and their effectiveness in acheiving stated goals, not their loyalty to country.
I'm not saying that we should return to the honor culture of duels or anything (the way that culture treated women is itself a reason to stay far away from it's values). But the larger point was that while Congress is a deliberative body, you don't just call another member a coward or a traitor lest you want your head kicked in. If you want civility in politics, you have to maintain it yourself and not go around using fighting wors for political gain becouse your rhteorical skills fail otherwise.
Yesterday, Rep. John Murtha (D-Penn) an Iraq hawk, and a conservative Democrat said that the troops should be brought home, that the war wasn't going as advertised, that the war was destabilizing the region, and that it was in general bad for America. Murtha is a 31 year verteran of the House, retire as a colonel in the USMC after 37 years of serviece including tours in Vietnam. He voted for the war resolution in 2002. Now the White House compares him to Michael Moore and says that he's advocating "surrender". And many Republican members of the House are saying that he dishonors the memory of the troops. The best is this little nugget from Rep. Geoff Davis (which I'm sure is just a coincidence), a Republican from Kentucky:
"I think it's important to understand the political climate in which these shameful statements have been made. Ayman Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's deputy, as well as Abu Musab Zarqawi, have made it quite clear in their internal propaganda that they cannot win unless they can drive the Americans out. And they know that they can't do that there, so they've brought the battlefield to the halls of Congress. And, frankly, the liberal leadership have put politics ahead of sound, fiscal and national security policy. And what they have done is cooperated with our enemies and are emboldening our enemies." Did you get that last bit there? He said that Murtha is "cooperat[ing] with out enemies." Them's fightin' words.
Here's the thing. Number one: he should beat the holy hell out of Dennis Hastert and his far right fringe American-hating kind. Number Two: as the the Michael Moore comparison. The opinon that the war is fucked and that we need to pull out is not a fringe left opinion unless you think that the majority of Americans are on the fringe left. This kinds of silly insulting is what people do when they don't have an answer to your comments. Yeah, John Murtha, who has made a career out of service to the nation is trying to help the terrorists. What's up with all these dudes that love America so much that they hate most Americans?
At least out here on the fringe left we question our oponents ideas and their effectiveness in acheiving stated goals, not their loyalty to country.
posted by justin | 10:59 AM
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